Coryat said...
[Y]ou never point out a false convert before they are exposed by their fruits, Ray. Why is that? Do you rely on works to discern, or do you lack the spiritual insight?
@Coryat
Ray doesn't point them out because it's not his job to. In fact, it's Ray's job NOT to. Jesus warns against identifying false converts and removing them from the church. See Jesus parable of the wheat and the tares, Matthew 13:24-30. God reserves the job of judgment for himself.
Monday, September 13, 2010
The Second Commandment
Thomas said...
[The second commandment is] obviously about making and worshipping literal, physical idols.
@Thomas
No. You've missed the meaning of the second commandment. God is a jealous of our love. I use the word "jealous", not as a bad thing, but as a good thing.
As a father, I'm jealous of the love of my daughter. I don't want my daughter to be taken home by some other man. I don't want for my daughter to call another man "Dad" and to hug him. No. I want that exclusively to myself. I want to be the exclusive "Dad" to my daughter. I'm jealous of my daughter's love.
That's an illustration of what God wants from us. God wants to be the exclusive desire of our heart. God wants exclusivity. He wants for us to call him alone God. He doesn't want anyone or anything to take His exclusive place.
That's the meaning of the second commandment.
Anything that our heart desires for, in the place of God, is an idol. An idol doesn't have to be a physical statue. Anything that we seek after instead of God, in place of God, is an idol. Whether it be power, prestige, comfort, pleasure. Anything that takes the place of God as the object of our desire is an idol.
The second commandment is not a rigid rule against making a physical statue. No. It's a guideline for the members of God's family. It's a boundary that God sets up for the benefit of His children.
[The second commandment is] obviously about making and worshipping literal, physical idols.
@Thomas
No. You've missed the meaning of the second commandment. God is a jealous of our love. I use the word "jealous", not as a bad thing, but as a good thing.
As a father, I'm jealous of the love of my daughter. I don't want my daughter to be taken home by some other man. I don't want for my daughter to call another man "Dad" and to hug him. No. I want that exclusively to myself. I want to be the exclusive "Dad" to my daughter. I'm jealous of my daughter's love.
That's an illustration of what God wants from us. God wants to be the exclusive desire of our heart. God wants exclusivity. He wants for us to call him alone God. He doesn't want anyone or anything to take His exclusive place.
That's the meaning of the second commandment.
Anything that our heart desires for, in the place of God, is an idol. An idol doesn't have to be a physical statue. Anything that we seek after instead of God, in place of God, is an idol. Whether it be power, prestige, comfort, pleasure. Anything that takes the place of God as the object of our desire is an idol.
The second commandment is not a rigid rule against making a physical statue. No. It's a guideline for the members of God's family. It's a boundary that God sets up for the benefit of His children.
On this rock
@Thomas
When Jesus says "and on this rock I build my church" Matthew 16:18(NIV)
Jesus is not referring to Peter. Jesus is referring to Simon Peter's answer.
Jesus: "Who do you say I am?"
Simon Peter: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
It's Simon Peter's statement that serves as the rock solid foundation of the church.
The point is that if Jesus is not "the Christ, the Son of the living God", then there is no solid foundation upon which to build the church.
When Jesus says "and on this rock I build my church" Matthew 16:18(NIV)
Jesus is not referring to Peter. Jesus is referring to Simon Peter's answer.
Jesus: "Who do you say I am?"
Simon Peter: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
It's Simon Peter's statement that serves as the rock solid foundation of the church.
The point is that if Jesus is not "the Christ, the Son of the living God", then there is no solid foundation upon which to build the church.
Tuesday, July 6, 2010
How can one ever be sure ...
Steven J said...
On the other hand, if one's perception of something ... is necessarily limited and incomplete, how can one ever be sure ... that one knows ...
@Steven J
That's an excellent question. It's a question that the great minds of philosophy have wrestled with for centuries.
I excerpted from your response, removing the references to "Ray" and "God" to highlight the essential question.
You may choose to believe that Ray's belief in God is the heart of the issue. But I submit to you that what is REALLY at issue is the "problem of knowledge", the framework of the your response.
The "absence of belief that there is a God" is ALSO subject to the problem of knowledge. (It really doesn't matter whether you frame it as an "absence of belief of existence" or a "belief of non-existence", both are subject to the same problem.)
All of which leads us back to the problem of evidence, that is, observations and interpretation of those observations, weighed as evidence. And that is informed by one's worldview (the philosophical framework by which one interprets the world around them.)
On the other hand, if one's perception of something ... is necessarily limited and incomplete, how can one ever be sure ... that one knows ...
@Steven J
That's an excellent question. It's a question that the great minds of philosophy have wrestled with for centuries.
I excerpted from your response, removing the references to "Ray" and "God" to highlight the essential question.
You may choose to believe that Ray's belief in God is the heart of the issue. But I submit to you that what is REALLY at issue is the "problem of knowledge", the framework of the your response.
The "absence of belief that there is a God" is ALSO subject to the problem of knowledge. (It really doesn't matter whether you frame it as an "absence of belief of existence" or a "belief of non-existence", both are subject to the same problem.)
All of which leads us back to the problem of evidence, that is, observations and interpretation of those observations, weighed as evidence. And that is informed by one's worldview (the philosophical framework by which one interprets the world around them.)
Monday, July 5, 2010
Using God's Name In Vain
James Romance said...
In all of history, no one has ever used God's name in vain. How do I know that? Because no one knows what God's actual name is.
@James Romance
You make an extraordinary claim to a knowledge of history. I believe your knowledge is incomplete, and inaccurate.
The ancient Jews did know what God's personal name was. They held God's name in high regard, in reverence, that His name was not to be spoken.
God's personal name is Yahweh. (In the Hebrew, of course, it is just four consonants. We represent the Hebrew consonants using the Roman letters YHWH.
And God has another speakable personal name, the name of Jesus. The name before which every knee will bow and every tongue confess.
So, it's not at all true that no one knows the name of God. Put that silly notion aside.
The bigger question, of course, is: what does the Bible mean when it speaks of "taking the Lord's name in vain"? What is the actual meaning?
For one thing, it means taking a solemn oath in God's name, and then not honoring that oath. That devalues the name of God.
Actually, any usage of God's name that devalues God is consider "vain". That is, "taking the Lord's name in vain"would be any usage of His name that imparts a lack of substance or worth. Basically, any foolish (unwise) use of God's name.
Such usage is sometimes referred to as "swearing" or "cursing". (I think we get the idea of "swearing" from the meaning of swearing an oath on something of value, and we get the idea of "cursing" from the meaning of God causing a curse to fall upon a group or an individual.)
N.B. This notion of cursing is not to be confused with the more generic "vulgarity", which simply means an inelegant or coarse expression, one that could be offensive to good taste or propriety.)
In summary, a true understanding of the third commandment is much deeper than the superficial meaning you propose.
HTH
In all of history, no one has ever used God's name in vain. How do I know that? Because no one knows what God's actual name is.
@James Romance
You make an extraordinary claim to a knowledge of history. I believe your knowledge is incomplete, and inaccurate.
The ancient Jews did know what God's personal name was. They held God's name in high regard, in reverence, that His name was not to be spoken.
God's personal name is Yahweh. (In the Hebrew, of course, it is just four consonants. We represent the Hebrew consonants using the Roman letters YHWH.
And God has another speakable personal name, the name of Jesus. The name before which every knee will bow and every tongue confess.
So, it's not at all true that no one knows the name of God. Put that silly notion aside.
The bigger question, of course, is: what does the Bible mean when it speaks of "taking the Lord's name in vain"? What is the actual meaning?
For one thing, it means taking a solemn oath in God's name, and then not honoring that oath. That devalues the name of God.
Actually, any usage of God's name that devalues God is consider "vain". That is, "taking the Lord's name in vain"would be any usage of His name that imparts a lack of substance or worth. Basically, any foolish (unwise) use of God's name.
Such usage is sometimes referred to as "swearing" or "cursing". (I think we get the idea of "swearing" from the meaning of swearing an oath on something of value, and we get the idea of "cursing" from the meaning of God causing a curse to fall upon a group or an individual.)
N.B. This notion of cursing is not to be confused with the more generic "vulgarity", which simply means an inelegant or coarse expression, one that could be offensive to good taste or propriety.)
In summary, a true understanding of the third commandment is much deeper than the superficial meaning you propose.
HTH
Thursday, July 1, 2010
Measuring God's Morality
James Romance concludes...
Clearly the Bible's concept of what is moral/immoral falls short of many higher standards by which morals can be measured.
@James Romance
By what standards does one measure morality? And of these standards, which is of the most importance?
By what token do you esteem any standard "higher" than that of the Most High, the author and creator of the universe?
God is the sole author of right and wrong. He judges the thoughts and actions of all men perfectly.
On that appointed day, when you stand before the throne of judgment, what will be your defense before the judge that knows all things perfectly, even those things hidden in your heart. That there was a "higher" human morality which stands above God's perfect morality? That you have chosen to elevate your own morality above that of God?
"Behold, he has become like one of us, knowing right from wrong."
Make no mistake about this. The truth is that the wrath of God that will be poured out on those who use foolish and deceitful words to lead people astray from the truth of God.
You have an opportunity to turn away from evil and turn back towards God. He is anxious to forgive. The gift of God's mercy is free, there is nothing you need to do to earn it. There is nothing you can do to earn it. All you have to do is accept it.
The choice is yours. Choose wisely.
Clearly the Bible's concept of what is moral/immoral falls short of many higher standards by which morals can be measured.
@James Romance
By what standards does one measure morality? And of these standards, which is of the most importance?
By what token do you esteem any standard "higher" than that of the Most High, the author and creator of the universe?
God is the sole author of right and wrong. He judges the thoughts and actions of all men perfectly.
On that appointed day, when you stand before the throne of judgment, what will be your defense before the judge that knows all things perfectly, even those things hidden in your heart. That there was a "higher" human morality which stands above God's perfect morality? That you have chosen to elevate your own morality above that of God?
"Behold, he has become like one of us, knowing right from wrong."
Make no mistake about this. The truth is that the wrath of God that will be poured out on those who use foolish and deceitful words to lead people astray from the truth of God.
You have an opportunity to turn away from evil and turn back towards God. He is anxious to forgive. The gift of God's mercy is free, there is nothing you need to do to earn it. There is nothing you can do to earn it. All you have to do is accept it.
The choice is yours. Choose wisely.
Is Murder The Same As Hatred
captain howdy asks...
Spencer, tell me--Is murder morally really the same as hatred? Is thinking about doing something ethically the same as doing it? Because that's what your religion is saying here.
@captain howdy
Yes, in a sense, they are the same. God cannot abide even the tiniest amount of sin. God abhors all sins, great and small.
So, yes, in a sense, they are the same. The end result of all sin is the same. Sin separates me from God.
And it's not "religion" that is saying this. God says it clearly. This is exactly what Jesus said.
Let's be clear. All sin will be punished justly. I am free to choose my thoughts and actions. But I am not free to choose the consequences.
HTH
Spencer, tell me--Is murder morally really the same as hatred? Is thinking about doing something ethically the same as doing it? Because that's what your religion is saying here.
@captain howdy
Yes, in a sense, they are the same. God cannot abide even the tiniest amount of sin. God abhors all sins, great and small.
So, yes, in a sense, they are the same. The end result of all sin is the same. Sin separates me from God.
And it's not "religion" that is saying this. God says it clearly. This is exactly what Jesus said.
Let's be clear. All sin will be punished justly. I am free to choose my thoughts and actions. But I am not free to choose the consequences.
HTH
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