spencer7593 said...
Recognize that it is impossible for us, as finite human beings, to fully comprehend an infinite, transcendent God. We are incapable of confining God within the bounds of the English language.
Rabbitpirate said...
Apologies for jumping into the middle of your conversation but I think this is exactly the point many of us on this blog have made before.
If it is impossible for us humans to fully understand God then any image we have of him must be incomplete and so inaccurate.
According to Ray if you have an incomplete and inaccurate image of God then you are following or talking about an idol and not the real God.
The argument you present here, that I agree with, pretty much confirms the idea that even the God Ray worships is an idol and NOT the real God.
So when Ray says that the God we don't believe in doesn't exist it also follows that the God he does believe in doesn't either, even if God is real.
@Rabbitpirate
As a finite human being, I am imperfect. I do not have the capacity to know everything about God. I am unable to know everything that God knows. Therefore, I cannot fully comprehend God.
But I do have the capability to sufficiently comprehend of God.
Contrary to your suggestion, incompleteness does not require insufficiency. (Recall that
Likewise, some degree of inaccuracy does not necessitate insufficiency.
What is required is a sufficient comprehension of God. I aim for the most complete and accurate understanding possible. I believe this is within my capability.
You decide for yourself what capacity you have, and whether it is sufficient.
Darkknight56 asks...
Can a finite being like us truly have a sufficient comprehension of an infinite being such as God? How would you define 'sufficient comprehension'? How would you know you had it considering our finite minds and His total infinity?
@Darkknight56
Can we know God?
God is above intellect, but he is not unintelligible.
He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end. Ecclesiastes 3:11 (NIV)
"Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you probe the limits of the Almighty? They are higher than the heavens—what can you do? They are deeper than the depths of the grave—what can you know? Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea." Job 11:7-9 (NIV)
David says (Psalm 19:7-9) that we can know God through his law, statutes, precepts and commands:
The law of the LORD is perfect,
reviving the soul.
The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy,
making wise the simple.
The precepts of the LORD are right,
giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the LORD are radiant,
giving light to the eyes.
The fear of the LORD is pure,
enduring forever.
The ordinances of the LORD are sure
and altogether righteous.
Jesus tells us we know God through him:
"If you knew me, you would know my Father also."
"Though you do not know him, I know him."
"before Abraham was born, I am!"
John 8:19,55,58
John and Paul tell us we know God through Christ:
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. John 1:18 (NIV)
The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 1 John 1:2 (NIV)
God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 2 Corinthians 5:19 (NIV)
How can we know God?
We can come to know God through:
1) Christ
2) Scripture
3) nature
4) conscience
5) reason
6) experience
7) prayer
