James Romance said...
In all of history, no one has ever used God's name in vain. How do I know that? Because no one knows what God's actual name is.
@James Romance
You make an extraordinary claim to a knowledge of history. I believe your knowledge is incomplete, and inaccurate.
The ancient Jews did know what God's personal name was. They held God's name in high regard, in reverence, that His name was not to be spoken.
God's personal name is Yahweh. (In the Hebrew, of course, it is just four consonants. We represent the Hebrew consonants using the Roman letters YHWH.
And God has another speakable personal name, the name of Jesus. The name before which every knee will bow and every tongue confess.
So, it's not at all true that no one knows the name of God. Put that silly notion aside.
The bigger question, of course, is: what does the Bible mean when it speaks of "taking the Lord's name in vain"? What is the actual meaning?
For one thing, it means taking a solemn oath in God's name, and then not honoring that oath. That devalues the name of God.
Actually, any usage of God's name that devalues God is consider "vain". That is, "taking the Lord's name in vain"would be any usage of His name that imparts a lack of substance or worth. Basically, any foolish (unwise) use of God's name.
Such usage is sometimes referred to as "swearing" or "cursing". (I think we get the idea of "swearing" from the meaning of swearing an oath on something of value, and we get the idea of "cursing" from the meaning of God causing a curse to fall upon a group or an individual.)
N.B. This notion of cursing is not to be confused with the more generic "vulgarity", which simply means an inelegant or coarse expression, one that could be offensive to good taste or propriety.)
In summary, a true understanding of the third commandment is much deeper than the superficial meaning you propose.
HTH
Monday, July 5, 2010
Thursday, July 1, 2010
Measuring God's Morality
James Romance concludes...
Clearly the Bible's concept of what is moral/immoral falls short of many higher standards by which morals can be measured.
@James Romance
By what standards does one measure morality? And of these standards, which is of the most importance?
By what token do you esteem any standard "higher" than that of the Most High, the author and creator of the universe?
God is the sole author of right and wrong. He judges the thoughts and actions of all men perfectly.
On that appointed day, when you stand before the throne of judgment, what will be your defense before the judge that knows all things perfectly, even those things hidden in your heart. That there was a "higher" human morality which stands above God's perfect morality? That you have chosen to elevate your own morality above that of God?
"Behold, he has become like one of us, knowing right from wrong."
Make no mistake about this. The truth is that the wrath of God that will be poured out on those who use foolish and deceitful words to lead people astray from the truth of God.
You have an opportunity to turn away from evil and turn back towards God. He is anxious to forgive. The gift of God's mercy is free, there is nothing you need to do to earn it. There is nothing you can do to earn it. All you have to do is accept it.
The choice is yours. Choose wisely.
Clearly the Bible's concept of what is moral/immoral falls short of many higher standards by which morals can be measured.
@James Romance
By what standards does one measure morality? And of these standards, which is of the most importance?
By what token do you esteem any standard "higher" than that of the Most High, the author and creator of the universe?
God is the sole author of right and wrong. He judges the thoughts and actions of all men perfectly.
On that appointed day, when you stand before the throne of judgment, what will be your defense before the judge that knows all things perfectly, even those things hidden in your heart. That there was a "higher" human morality which stands above God's perfect morality? That you have chosen to elevate your own morality above that of God?
"Behold, he has become like one of us, knowing right from wrong."
Make no mistake about this. The truth is that the wrath of God that will be poured out on those who use foolish and deceitful words to lead people astray from the truth of God.
You have an opportunity to turn away from evil and turn back towards God. He is anxious to forgive. The gift of God's mercy is free, there is nothing you need to do to earn it. There is nothing you can do to earn it. All you have to do is accept it.
The choice is yours. Choose wisely.
Is Murder The Same As Hatred
captain howdy asks...
Spencer, tell me--Is murder morally really the same as hatred? Is thinking about doing something ethically the same as doing it? Because that's what your religion is saying here.
@captain howdy
Yes, in a sense, they are the same. God cannot abide even the tiniest amount of sin. God abhors all sins, great and small.
So, yes, in a sense, they are the same. The end result of all sin is the same. Sin separates me from God.
And it's not "religion" that is saying this. God says it clearly. This is exactly what Jesus said.
Let's be clear. All sin will be punished justly. I am free to choose my thoughts and actions. But I am not free to choose the consequences.
HTH
Spencer, tell me--Is murder morally really the same as hatred? Is thinking about doing something ethically the same as doing it? Because that's what your religion is saying here.
@captain howdy
Yes, in a sense, they are the same. God cannot abide even the tiniest amount of sin. God abhors all sins, great and small.
So, yes, in a sense, they are the same. The end result of all sin is the same. Sin separates me from God.
And it's not "religion" that is saying this. God says it clearly. This is exactly what Jesus said.
Let's be clear. All sin will be punished justly. I am free to choose my thoughts and actions. But I am not free to choose the consequences.
HTH
Pick Up Sticks
Steven J asks...
Are you suggesting that we (or you) are free to pick up sticks on the Sabbath because Jesus is the fulfillment of the fourth commandment?
@Steven J
Yes, exactly.
I am free in Christ to gather firewood on the (ritual Jewish) Sabbath. In Christ, I am not under the condemnation of the Law.
Recall that the religious leaders accused Jesus of violating the Law when he picked grain on the Sabbath.
Matthew 12:1
Mark 2:23
Luke 6:1
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, and I am in Christ, the life of Jesus is in me.
Would also prohibit me from wearing fabrics woven of two kinds of thread, or prohibit me from having bacon on my cheeseburger?
I am not under the curse of the powerless law. I am set free in Christ.
HTH
Are you suggesting that we (or you) are free to pick up sticks on the Sabbath because Jesus is the fulfillment of the fourth commandment?
@Steven J
Yes, exactly.
I am free in Christ to gather firewood on the (ritual Jewish) Sabbath. In Christ, I am not under the condemnation of the Law.
Recall that the religious leaders accused Jesus of violating the Law when he picked grain on the Sabbath.
Matthew 12:1
Mark 2:23
Luke 6:1
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, and I am in Christ, the life of Jesus is in me.
Would also prohibit me from wearing fabrics woven of two kinds of thread, or prohibit me from having bacon on my cheeseburger?
I am not under the curse of the powerless law. I am set free in Christ.
HTH
Do Not Covet
James Romance said...
The Bible does not say, "Thou shalt not desire things that belong to others", in real life it only says, "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors [things]", which Christians twist around to mean "Thou shalt not desire things that belong to others". It says nothing about coveting things which belong to strangers, just neighbors.
@James Romance
You seem to make a careful distinction between "strangers" and "neighbors".
Have you ever considered what the Bible has to say about who your neighbor is?
Since it was God that gave the instruction concerning a "neighbor", perhaps should consider what God means by "neighbor".
---
One day an expert in religious law stood up to test Jesus by asking him this question: "Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?"
Jesus replied, "What does the law of Moses say? How do you read it?"
The man answered, "'You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.' And, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
'Right!' Jesus told him. 'Do this and you will live!'
The man wanted to justify his actions, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"
Luke 10:25-29 (NLT)
Jesus gives the man an answer to his question, in the form of a parable. The answer is that a stranger is a man's neighbor.
HTH
The Bible does not say, "Thou shalt not desire things that belong to others", in real life it only says, "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors [things]", which Christians twist around to mean "Thou shalt not desire things that belong to others". It says nothing about coveting things which belong to strangers, just neighbors.
@James Romance
You seem to make a careful distinction between "strangers" and "neighbors".
Have you ever considered what the Bible has to say about who your neighbor is?
Since it was God that gave the instruction concerning a "neighbor", perhaps should consider what God means by "neighbor".
---
One day an expert in religious law stood up to test Jesus by asking him this question: "Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?"
Jesus replied, "What does the law of Moses say? How do you read it?"
The man answered, "'You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.' And, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
'Right!' Jesus told him. 'Do this and you will live!'
The man wanted to justify his actions, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"
Luke 10:25-29 (NLT)
Jesus gives the man an answer to his question, in the form of a parable. The answer is that a stranger is a man's neighbor.
HTH
God Does Not Sin
Pvblivs said...
So, if Jesus ever got angry (according to your interpretation) he was a sinner. And if your deity "pours out his wrath" on people, he is a sinner as well. Anger is a prerequisite for wrath. You can be angry, but not act it out, in which case you are not wrathful. Or you can act on it, in which case you are wrathful.
Not all anger is unrighteous. And the righteous wrath of God is not preceded by unrighteous anger (contrary to your assertion.)
The anger of Jesus in the temple was righteous. The anger of Jesus was not of malice or spite. His anger was rightful at the desecration of his father's house. Jesus took righteous action. There was no sin in the anger of Jesus.
Jesus teaches the meaning of the commandment clearly. It's not just the action of taking an innocent life that breaks the commandment. It's the condition of a man's heart that finds him guilty of breaking the commandment. This isn't something I made up. This is the clear teaching of Jesus, in the Sermon on the Mount. (Matthew 5:21-23)
But you choose to disregard the clear meaning of God's word, and choose to substitute your own contorted thinking. For what reason? Do you find pleasure in misrepresenting the truth of God's word? Do you take delight in leading people astray from the path that leads to life?
I fear that you have fallen prey to Satan's desire to lead the whole world astray. (cf. Revelation 12:9)
So, if Jesus ever got angry (according to your interpretation) he was a sinner. And if your deity "pours out his wrath" on people, he is a sinner as well. Anger is a prerequisite for wrath. You can be angry, but not act it out, in which case you are not wrathful. Or you can act on it, in which case you are wrathful.
Not all anger is unrighteous. And the righteous wrath of God is not preceded by unrighteous anger (contrary to your assertion.)
The anger of Jesus in the temple was righteous. The anger of Jesus was not of malice or spite. His anger was rightful at the desecration of his father's house. Jesus took righteous action. There was no sin in the anger of Jesus.
Jesus teaches the meaning of the commandment clearly. It's not just the action of taking an innocent life that breaks the commandment. It's the condition of a man's heart that finds him guilty of breaking the commandment. This isn't something I made up. This is the clear teaching of Jesus, in the Sermon on the Mount. (Matthew 5:21-23)
But you choose to disregard the clear meaning of God's word, and choose to substitute your own contorted thinking. For what reason? Do you find pleasure in misrepresenting the truth of God's word? Do you take delight in leading people astray from the path that leads to life?
I fear that you have fallen prey to Satan's desire to lead the whole world astray. (cf. Revelation 12:9)
Two Sets of Ten Commandments
Coryat said...
Why Ray old bean, I'm afraid you'll have to be far more specific. More than one version of the commandments was given; see for example the contrasting versions given in Exodus 20 and Exodus 34.
Also, you've yet to answer how you decide what is for example 'ceremonial' law, and what isn't. Since I know you follow a straight sola scriptura reading, surely you could fill us in?
Curious minds want to know!
@Coryat
Exodus 34 says that words written on the replacment tables were the SAME WORDS written on the original tablets:
"The LORD said to Moses, "Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I will write on them the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke." Exodus 34:1
God gives instruction to Moses. He tells Moses to write down other things, which are different from the words that God himself engraves on the stone tablets.
cf. Deuteronomy 4:13
cf. Deuteronomy 5:22
God himself engraves the Ten Commandments on the first stone tablets.
God himself engraves the SAME WORDS on the replacement tablets.
God also commands Moses to write down OTHER commandments for the Children of Israel.
Why Ray old bean, I'm afraid you'll have to be far more specific. More than one version of the commandments was given; see for example the contrasting versions given in Exodus 20 and Exodus 34.
Also, you've yet to answer how you decide what is for example 'ceremonial' law, and what isn't. Since I know you follow a straight sola scriptura reading, surely you could fill us in?
Curious minds want to know!
@Coryat
Exodus 34 says that words written on the replacment tables were the SAME WORDS written on the original tablets:
"The LORD said to Moses, "Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I will write on them the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke." Exodus 34:1
God gives instruction to Moses. He tells Moses to write down other things, which are different from the words that God himself engraves on the stone tablets.
cf. Deuteronomy 4:13
cf. Deuteronomy 5:22
God himself engraves the Ten Commandments on the first stone tablets.
God himself engraves the SAME WORDS on the replacement tablets.
God also commands Moses to write down OTHER commandments for the Children of Israel.
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